The leaked torture memos describe the intention of some of the interrogation methods at one point to bring about learned helplessness. This is a method developed by Martin Seligman at the University of Pennsylvania. Back in the 1960’s he:
conducted experiments on caged dogs, in which they used electric charges to shock them randomly. He discovered that the random mistreatment destroyed the dogs emotionally to the point where they no longer had the will to escape, even when offered a way out.
Without a whole lot of corroboration it seems, this research has been applied to humans suffering from depression, based on the assumption that they don’t have control over their circumstances and over time this prompts learned helplessness. Seligman was actually employed by the CIA to consult with the team of psychologists at SERE who developed the torture techniques in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks.
The premise of these interrogative methods developed in San Diego was meant to be to avoid “severe physical or mental pain or suffering.” Yet the whole underlying assumption of learned helplessness is the complete and utter breakdown of the human emotional response. As Vaughan at the excellent Mind Hacks blog puts it, “Learned helplessness is, by definition, the effect of chronic uncontrollable suffering.”
He goes on to point out that interrogators thinking straight would want to “avoid learned helplessness at all costs, because the detainee would see no point in co-operating.” The dogs in the Seligman studies wouldn’t even escape if given the chance, once their will had been broken. What makes anyone think that the intelligence gathered (if any) from such evil practices would be valuable?
Here’s where I want to propose a crazy thought. In the aftermath of these discoveries about what has gone on in the “world’s greatest democracy” over the last ten years the outcry has been, well, muted at best. Christians are exercised over gay marriage and embryonic stem cells but largely silent on the fact that one man was waterboarded 186 times in just over 700 days! Maybe the effect of the last ten years has been to render the American populace in a state of learned helplessness? Or more specifically, the evangelical Christians who are meant to speak with prophetic power for justice for all but who have been embroiled through political influence in these crimes, are now so emotionally numb that they cannot rouse themselves to speak with clarity even on this most obvious of ethical nightmares?
Your Correspondent, generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers
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A sentiment which has been completely lost in modern America is ‘do to others what you’d have them do onto you’.Americans should imagine how they would feel if their soldiers were being held by the enemy, how would they expect them to be treated, would they be ok with the use of waterboarding and stress positions to in order to get information of forthcoming American air strikes. I think not. Empathy has eroded completely.
How is it to be restored then Monkey?
short answer… how the heck do i know?? long answer…
? more complex and involved news reporting as opposed to clichéd stereotyping and shorthand to describe and access other cultures. Less demonising of our ‘enemies’ for a political end.
education, travel, exchange schemes
Just simple stuff like that! that and love, lots of love
what’s your solution then?
Preaching of course!
Great idea, USA needs MORE religion and faith (if possible). That’s got a great track record of breading empathy
America surely does need more Christianity. Less of the religion though.
And I can’t think of anything better than the Christian faith to engender empathy since we find its source there. That reminds me monkey! I have another Zoomtard to write about just that point!
no one had any empathy pre-Christ? no other religion/non-religion has empathy? is the history of Christianity littered with empathy towards non-believers? hmm maybe/maybe not. Ever noticed how Christians always think that what the world needs is THEIR brand/breed/denomination of Christianity, and that all the problems/perversions/sins of Christianity is the fault of a mis-application of Christianity.
empathy is an interesting topic though. what are the bounds of our empathetic responsibility. family/local community/country/continent/world? im never quite sure about it. guess i need some of your moral certitude dont i
Monkey, you can accuse me of lots of things, but even a cursory look through the history of these two blogs will show you that I am not someone who is shy about criticising Christianity. If you think silence in the face of their government torturing people is anything OTHER THAN A FAILURE OF AMERICANS’ CHRISTIANITY, then I think Occam’s Razor applies. Don’t just kneejerk against everything I write!
I certainly do have moral certitude on the issue of torture. It is certainly wrong in all cases and I argue that position because I am a Christian; one who follows the God who was tortured so that torture would end.
You are the one, remember, who has introduced the language of empathy and suggested that we can encourage it through exchange trips!?!
If you seriously think that the pagan cultures of Europe and West Asia in the preceding centuries of Christianity, where babies were typically abandoned if not wanted, where women were considered animals and human life was used as a game in the city stadia was as empathic as a society that even nominally follows Christianity, then you might need to go home from work early and have a nice long lie down.
‘exchange trips’ was tongue in cheek memory of my visits to Catholic schools as a proddy teenager
so you stand by… there was no empathy pre-christinity? if i find an example will you apostisise?
things like this always come down to definitions don’t they. we can agree on that surely. the definition of torture… the definition of empathy… etc etc.
I’m being humble here, saying that im not sure what emplathy is, in a non-charitable-religious setting.
>>>anything OTHER THAN A FAILURE OF AMERICANS’ CHRISTIANITY
so what it really needs… is YOUR brand/creed/version of Christianity? there are other brands of christianty who would look at your lifestle/views and say that you need REAL christianty in your life, would they not.
From the bottom to the top:
Sure. There are some people out there you can probably find who will argue that my use of a Microsoft mouse instead of a logitech one is compromising Biblical Christianity. You are still missing the point. I am not arguing from Dublin’s 21st Century Presbyterianism that torture is wrong. I, along with the whole church, say torture is wrong. So the point is, let me state it again, that the silence of american Christians in the face of this torture is a failure of their Christianity.
I will continue to argue, and will cite lots of brainy examples later in the week, that empathy is in some very serious sense a product of Christianity.
I am not a believer in Christianity the way that a lego set is a lego set. If you take a piece out of the lego set is no longer as it is meant to be. My faith is not an accumulation of logical bricks such that if you prove empathy to have its roots in Greek paganism I will suddenly no longer have a relationship with God.
And finally, did you have to be kept in cages when you visited the catholic schools you ape!
Looking forward to the empathy post.
A little pre-objection you may already have thought about: surely the Greek tragedians and comedians routinely played upon the empathy of their audiences for their protagonists?
Or what about Homer’s “poem of force” as Simone Weil put it? Lovely page about that idea at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~loxias/iliad.htm that’s worth reading.
Surely the final scene between Achilles and Priam is full of empathy, the war hero/criminal for the victim’s father, and the father for a flawed young man so like his lost son? I see genuine in-feeling, an entering into the suffering of the Other, in the Iliad. Hm. Anyhow, interested to hear what you have to say about it.
And surely the only issue old boy is that the empathy is for those amongst their own tribe?
What QMonkey is discussing in these here comments is empathy for the Other; indeed, empathy for the enemy. Did the greeks have an entering into the suffering of the Persians?
I defer to your expertise in this area, at least until I unleash no less an advocate than Jacques Derrida on Thursday.
Priam and Achilles are not of the same tribe: one is Greek, the other Trojan – the two sides of the war at the center of the Iliad.
As for the Persians, I think Herodotus pays at least as much attention to their trials and tribulations in his Histories as he does to those of the Greeks; his is an inquiry into the roots of that great conflict of his age, and he’s remarkably even-handed about it. So … not sure.
Anyhow, looking forward to Derrida.
“Empathy has its roots in Christianity” feels to me like overstating the case.
Did you ever see my big fat greek wedding? where the greek dad says… give me a word, any word and i’ll tell you how it actually originated from greek!! nope? didn’t see it? ok
Galore.
Also a really good example of ancient empathy for the enemy is provided by Baldur’s death in Norse mythology. One of the few examples of two groups who totally hated each other coming together out of mutual understanding of loss. Also possibly versions of the story of Amaterasu from Japan or Akkadian stories about Ishtar and her lover Tammuz.
That is interesting but I’d love to hear more about it Akkad. I mean, does Baldur’s funeral not lead to a war between dwarves and gods or dwarves and giants? And my claim is that empathy as expressed to those outside one’s people group is what is innovative in Judeo-Christianity. What we see in Baldur is fraternal sympathy but not the kind of empathy Johnny (QMonkey) is arguing for.
And Johnny has successfully railroaded another Zoomtard. I was writing about torture. Now I am defending *his* comments about empathy!
I am only tangentially familiar with Amaterasu but don’t see empathy there especially. Ishtar is saved from the underworld by Tammuz; am I right? But Ishtar and Tammuz are still of the same tribe (gods). Give me some sources, flesh out the argument!
>>>And Johnny has successfully railroaded another Zoomtard
awwwww , unfair. i was/aminterested in this torture post and said so and postulated reasons, agreements and worries. then you typed the immortal words ‘How is it to be restored then Monkey?’
takes 2 to railroad.
Torture is shtewpeh.
Some reading material in support of my brilliant argument -
Matthew Alexander on the efficacy of torture:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/12/matthew_alexand.html
Stephen Griffin on the often-used ‘ticking time bomb’ scenario (this is really good, and relevant to the conversation about empathy here):
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2006/10/torture-and-ticking-time-bomb.html
Also, I’m reminded of these words from the supreme court of Israel on torture in 1999:
“This decision opens with a description of the difficult reality in which Israel finds herself security wise. We shall conclude this judgment by re-addressing that harsh reality. We are aware that this decision does not ease dealing with that reality. This is the destiny of democracy, as not all means are acceptable to it, and not all practices employed by its enemies are open before it.
Although a democracy must often fight with one hand tied behind its back, it nonetheless has the upper hand. Preserving the Rule of Law and recognition of an individual’s liberty constitutes an important component in its understanding of security. At the end of the day, they strengthen its spirit and its strength and allow it to overcome its difficulties.”
(see http://hei.unige.ch/~clapham/hrdoc/docs/terrorisraeljudgment.pdf)
Hey Zoomtard,
I’ll flesh it out a bit more later, just to say the two groups who come together after Baldur’s death are the aesir and the asynjur rather than the giants and the gods. Similarly with Timmuz’s death in Akkadian myth, two different tribes of Gods come together to mourn him, tribes which were previously enemies. Also I don’t think Tammuz and Ishtar were the same tribe as she was Anunnaki and he was sort of independent.
However much better examples are to be found in Chinese Mythology, I’ll dig out my notes and come back with a better response.
However all I’ll be doing is adding to Disapproving Ex-Housemate’s example of Priam and Achilles, which is clearly empathy for those outside your tribe. Christianity certainly emphasised this feature and it’s the only religion where it is actually made a major theme rather than appearing in isolated stories. However in light of Priam and Achilles, I don’t think you can say it was totally absent from other religions prior to Christianity.
Akkad it looks to me as though you are discussing sympathy, not empathy. Where is the incarnation of the compassion? At what point does the feeling become action and therefore have any historical bearing?
Thanks Akkad. So that helps me understand your point and Nordic mythology a lot more. I do not want to suggest that Christianity “invented” empathy. I am not making some kind of ethical land grab on behalf of my sect!
Rather, what I want to argue is that empathy does require some kind of globalised ethic that when it arises, it arises in Christianity.
Without the underlying theological conviction that people actually bear the imago dei, we will find it hard to support and nurture the virtue of empathy.
i agree with that last paragraph completely. Its a interesting and difficult question for non-theists. If you are backing off from a suggestion that Christianity invented empathy then i’m not sure there is any disagreement. Dissapointingly.
Well I am not “backing off” cos I never made that claim. So we can still disagree! YAY!
Hey,
Clairebo before I respond to you I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying. Is it basically that the acts I describe are too passive? That there needs to be action (empathy is sympathy acted upon?). If I have you wrong I’d appreciate clarification.
Zoomtard, you are basically saying that empathy is difficult to maintain unless you appreciate that people are just as incredible as one’s self. That we are all made in the image of God and hence all equally worthwhile.
Interesting idea, I’ll have to think about it.
Akkad, while the dictionary wouldn’t define empathy as sympathy incarnated, I think empathy as the act of entering into the situations of others demands a certain activeness in order to have worth – so basically – yes.
It often worries me when Christians think that their only goodness and charity comes from Jesus worship. It certainly gives me pause in attempting to convince that the whole Jesus stuff ain’t necessarily so (lest they turn in to socio paths with out the Jesus stories). But here’s the rub, it’s demonstrable that goodness/badness/charity/empathy isn’t determined by ones religious/faith views. Cases in point would be Bill Gates, Nelson Mandela, Gandi, Warren buffet … none of them seem to want much to do with the Jesus stuff.
That’s not a case. You have wrapped up three virtues and one sin-state together and then connected them to three living men and one dead, three who lived in Christian societies and one who was trained there, two were captains of industry who lived in unimaginable wealth and comfort and two political leaders who achieved great things while having glaring faults.
If you can separate an idea out of that post there Monkey we can have a chat.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/30/religion.torture/index.html#cnnSTCText
this makes a depressing read…probably contributes to the ‘muted outcry at best you’re talking about…’
“White evangelical Protestants were the religious group most likely to say torture is often or sometimes justified — more than six in 10 supported it.”
Anna, help me here. Don’t post anymore links that want me to dig a grave for myself and jump into it. At the risk of inciting the wrath of Jaybercrow, may I suggest that the systematic disregard for the sacraments that we find in modern evangelicalism will be proven to correspond to belief that torture is ok.
If we do not take seriously how we share bread in the name of the tortured Messiah, we lose our ability to see the unholy sickness that torture in a “Christian” country actually is.
How would Nigerian Christianity respond to the idea of torture?
Hey Clairebo,
I just want to let you know that my attempt at an example of active empathy is given in the comments to the post “Where does empathy come from?”
I just realised I never really responded.